“If Only I Had Known…”
Thomas Edison, the man credited with inventing the modern incandescent light bulb, tried over 6,000 different materials for the filament before he settled on the one that would burn for 1,500 hours and give off 16 watts of light. Which filament did he eventually settle on? The last one – the one that worked!
William Carey was a cobbler of no particular academic merit, yet after years of trying to get to India to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and hurdling the many roadblocks that were placed before him by the Hyper-Calvinists of his day, he finally made it. While waiting to go he taught himself Hebrew and Greek, and while in India translated portions of the Word of God into over 20 languages and dialects. When asked about his spiritual gift he said, “I can plod.”
As we have spoken to pastors and elders who are part of churches that have made a move away from the PCUSA and into the New Wineskins Presbytery of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, or into their geographic EPC presbytery, we have repeatedly asked, “what would you do differently?” The typical response is, “If only I had known….” There is no perfect way to make the transition out of the PCUSA. There is only the way that works, much like Edison’s light bulb. There is no simple way to transition out of the PCUSA, so we must be ready to act when others think we should wait and be ready to plod along slowly with our eyes fixed on the goal.
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What follows is an amalgamation of stories, ideas, and suggestions from those who have “been through it,” and their words of wisdom for those who are thinking and praying about it.
“Our session was not unanimous – that turned out to be a problem.” The unanimity of the spiritual leadership of the church is a top priority. The elders are called to serve in their capacity because of their spiritual discernment and maturity. We have repeatedly heard things like, “when our session was unanimous in their recommending a move, then the congregation was much more confident.” It is worth the time it takes in session meetings to discuss, inform, and pray about issues within the denomination and how they affect the local church. “It took almost two years to get our elders up to speed about General Assembly actions, what they meant, and what the alternatives were, but it was worth it…. Our elders led the movement out of the PCUSA, our pastor did not.” The pastor is important in this process, but not as important as elder leadership. One senior woman told her pastor, “I’ll still be here when you have moved on to a bigger church, so what do the elders want to do!”
“Many of the questions the congregation asked centered on taking care of our pastor and his family.” Some churches waited until the last minute to find out about the benefits of the EPC, how to transition to them, and what were their strengths and weaknesses compared to the benefits of the PCUSA. Start early and have your ducks in a row when it comes to the benefits for your staff. It never hurts to call the EPC GA office and ask questions. “The EPC benefits person was very helpful and gave us everything we needed.” We heard this statement repeated many times by pastors and elders after they called and asked their questions.
“If we would have known how our presbytery was going to respond we would have….” This statement goes both ways. Some have looked back at the way they left and determined, too late, that it would have been better to ask for dismissal or go right to negotiations with their presbytery. Others have found out the hard way that simply asking for dismissal was enough to cause their presbytery to seek to remove the pastor and session. Some of us were, and still are close friends with the Executive Presbyter, and this relationship can help determine how you should proceed. “My EP told me that even if we would have attempted to negotiate or seek dismissal there were people in the presbytery who would have called for my head.” Hopefully this is the exception, but a full awareness of the personalities and factions within your presbytery is very helpful.
“Our education process was so long that the membership lost interest.” Many churches have started out with a plan to educate the congregation over the course of 12-18 months leading to a vote. Several pastors have told us that 6 months or less would have been ideal. “The presbytery set the conditions for dismissal and we felt the process was purposefully extended.” If you are seeking dismissal there is no way around this one, the presbytery sets the process and their agenda takes precedence. “What we were afraid of, a condensed education process, really worked out to be better for the congregation.” Each church has its own personality and every member needs as much information as possible, but don’t be afraid of pouring it in as fast as they can take it.
“What we should have done was just have the congregation write out questions they wanted answers to and then at our information sessions we could have been more productive.” There is so much information out there about the actions and direction of the PCUSA as well as the New Wineskins and the EPC that it is important to answer the questions your congregation has about what the future holds for them and how they will best be able to do ministry and serve Christ. There are no “silly” questions in this process and it’s appropriate to answer the same question 5 or 6 times if necessary. Some churches collected questions and answered them on their website each week!
“Our lawyers really were our friends and we should have let them have more input when it came to the negotiations.” “We were willing to negotiate, but we weren’t willing to walk away from our property, so it cost us more than we wanted to pay.” It is important to set definite parameters beyond which you will not go when/if you are in negotiations concerning property, dismissal or disaffiliation. The Lord has entrusted your congregation with resources to serve Him and further the Kingdom. In negotiations the basic question is, “who will use those resources – you or someone else?” Sometimes it is money well spent, you are free to pursue ministry in new ways and with new associations, but other times “it just feels like extortion when you have to pay for something twice.” Some congregations have been hesitant to pay anything, but wanted to move to the NW/EPC Presbytery. The gentleman who helped mediate one settlement told us, “In one year you will look back and not miss this money, in fact you will judge it to be money well spent.” He was right!
“We never talked about these things in our presbytery because we never trusted each other enough.” Several pastors and elders made this comment to us out of frustration, that if the atmosphere of their presbytery had been more conducive to discussing some of the hard issues within the PCUSA in a rational fashion their sessions may have acted in a different way. “There were many members who were upset but they wouldn’t talk about it in public (at presbytery) but individually they were very talkative.” Because of this fear of talking about things in public it is very hard to know just where everybody stands. If congregations and presbyteries spent more time discussing and praying about the major issues within the denomination there would be a more trusting atmosphere.
“If we had known there was a move to close the opportunity to be dismissed to the EPC we would have started the process earlier.” Several pastors have heard “through the grapevine” that there is a move by some in Louisville to stop any churches being dismissed to the New Wineskins Presbytery of the EPC. This is frustrating for many because they don’t understand why one Reformed body would no longer “recognize” another Reformed body (G-11.0103i) and be encouraged by their desire to further the Kingdom. One elder asked, “If they recognize the UCC why would they no longer recognize the EPC?”
“If only we had known how much better things would be in the EPC…theological unity…looking forward to presbytery meetings…their focus on missions…the attitude of everyone in the General Assembly office, then we would have been more at peace about our actions.” Often we get all charged up about leaving something, but we aren’t all that sure about what we are moving toward. For many congregations it was a great relief to be out of the PCUSA and an unexpected pleasure to be in the EPC. The sentiment most often expressed has centered on the spiritual renewal and excitement that the transition process, however painful, has generated in local churches. “If only we had known the Lord had this blessing waiting for us, we would not have hesitated!”
This compilation of stories, etc. is not an advertisement for leaving the PCUSA, but an opportunity for churches and Presbyteries to learn from the questions and struggles others have already faced. The call of our Lord and Savior is to make disciples. If you as an individual or as a particular church can do that best within the PCUSA, then do it and do it to the glory of God. If the Lord calls you to serve in a new affiliation then learn from others and act in accord with His will.
January 5th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Our 2 Elders who were the voting delegates to the New Wineskins Convocations, came
back from the first Convo - persuaded the Pastor, 1 Staff person and 1 more Elder to
go to the Tulsa Convo. We then started “New Wineskins” 6 week classes for the con-
gregation - offering them at three different time choices. We developed our own
Curriculum, tracing the church back to Calvin - through the early apostasy events of the 1920’s - forward to the inception of the 1960’s and the inception of the Lay Committee - onward to the establishment of some 15+ renewal groups - how the tables began to turn when the Conservatives lost voting power at GA and in many Presbyteries - the membership decline in PC(USA) as well as all of the mainline churches, comparing that to the two fastest growing groups in America, Roman Catholic and Assembly of God - how folks are fleeing the mainline pews for their spiritual lives - onward to the beginnings of The New Wineskins Initiative through Dean Weaver’s and Dave Henderson’s vision of the “New Thing”, and where we are today,
complete with an Exit Plan through the work of the New Wineskins Association of Churches. We urged present Session Elders and incoming Elders to attend the classes. stating that this was as important as any thing they might ever do as an Elder, as important as the call of a new Pastor. 20 persons completed the classes, as well as 9 from the nearby Hillsdale Presbyterian Church. As a result, we had some 15 Elders attending the Florida Convo. These Elders were on board! After Florida, the Elders decided that they must step up to the plate and lead these churches out. Of course, our pastors were on board, but the Elders themselves were unanimous in the decision to leave. When we decided to put the wheels into motion, we then held numerous 1-2 hour “information events” to get the churches on Board. The Elders have to get themselves educated first - make their decisions - and then proceed to educate the congregations. This proved to be a good course of action for us.
Lue Ann Hellyer
Elder - formerly FPC,Paola, Ks - now Lighthouse Presbyterian Church, Paola
January 5th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I want to correct your reference to Wm Carey. It was not the hyper Calvinists who prevented him from goingo to India. The British east India Company was strongly opposed and denounced him on the floor of Parliament, fearing it would put their profits in peril. They called him a moonstruck fanatic and other things, referred to him as a “nest of consecrated cobblers.” And the company refused him passage on one of its ships and would not allow him to live in its territory, so he had to go to a Danish held area.
January 5th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
:: New Wineskins :: Association of Churches » Blog Archive » “If Only I Had Known…”
An article from New Wineskins on things people who have left want to tell people who haven’t left yet.
January 5th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Re. the refusal by the PCUSA to dismiss a congregation to a “transitional” (i.e. New Wineskins) presbytery, we (the session of St. Paul’s in Somerset, PA) were told in no uncertain terms by our presbytery (Redstone), that this is definitely the case and was approved by the “reformed” church hierarchy perhaps in November. This is not “through the grapevine.”
January 6th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Our Presbytery (WabashVAlley) has developed a process for full discussion with any churches who are thinking of leaving the PCUSA. Since that process has been implemented the discussions have been open and conciliatory. The presbytery is not placing roadblocks in the way of those churches, and is dealing with each as an individual congregation. Presbyters go to the church and listen and make their case for continued affiliation before the session and congregation. there is open discussion on the floor of the presbytery, and so far the process has been calm and Christlike. Copies of our policy “Policy for discussion with churches Discerning their relationship to the PCUSA” can be had from the Presbytery office.
January 9th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
I have been following the experiences of various congregations as reported in the Layman. My sense is that those congregations who start by seeking the protection of a state court with TROs and injunctions tend to fare better than those who trust in the charity, goodness, and mercy of the local. Presbytery. Unfortunately, these Christians virtues seem be in short supply in some PCUSA presbyteries. There is absolutely no uniformity in the presbytery responses to a request for separation so one cannot know how one’s local presbytery is going to react to a request for dismissal, which is why it seems to be best (in most cases) to start in state court.
January 31st, 2008 at 9:55 pm
PCUSA and Heartland Presbytery opposed to pastors stealing churches!
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